Curse

**cosyfiep** · Feb 29, 2008, 01:10 AM // 01:10

getting to know the habits of you heroes and henchmen (guess someone should write a book).

Vekk, even when flagged still runs into every mob he can
Ducky when flagged behind me somehow

still manages to run in front of me and die ...
So sucky thinks he is a tank,
Olias doesnt want his minions to die so they never catch up to the group (or wait until the fight is over/almost over to show up).
Zhed, well they did say his race was a bit stupid, and yeah sometimes he really shows it.

but they dont seem to be any worse recently----just more of the same, and the need to micro manage their every move. (though I have noticed that even when I call a target "I am targeting the morganite cleric!!!" NONE of them actually change targets and hit the cleric....but alas they are AI's and have no brain so its the most I can expect of them....)

Bluefeather · Feb 29, 2008, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Now I understand why Olias is misbahaving.

My favorite 4-man setup is:

Me (Warrior)
Olias (sab's Jagged MM)
Talkora
Jin

In the past, I always see Olias making 10-12-10 minions and I seldom see him get to low as 8 unless if im in area where there are no exploitable corpse like when I did the final ring of fire area (i literally dropped Olias from my team).

But, two days ago and even up to yesterday, I noticed that Olias is hardly making 6 minions even in EOTN area where plenty of corpses are found. I tried to check him when i deliverately made a direct battle against the charrs near <forgot the name of the town. it starts with G....Hold...>. Charrs are only low level with few level 20. I managed to wipe them all (2 groups) but Olias never got more than 6 minions.

I thought something wrong with him but i haven't change anything about him (bortak staff....16 Death 13 Soul Reaping).

So it wasn't only me.

The Meth · Feb 29, 2008, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluefeather

Now I understand why Olias is misbahaving.

My favorite 4-man setup is:

Me (Warrior)
Olias (sab's Jagged MM)
Talkora
Jin

In the past, I always see Olias making 10-12-10 minions and I seldom see him get to low as 8 unless if im in area where there are no exploitable corpse like when I did the final ring of fire area (i literally dropped Olias from my team).

But, two days ago and even up to yesterday, I noticed that Olias is hardly making 6 minions even in EOTN area where plenty of corpses are found. I tried to check him when i deliverately made a direct battle against the charrs near <forgot the name of the town. it starts with G....Hold...>. Charrs are only low level with few level 20. I managed to wipe them all (2 groups) but Olias never got more than 6 minions.

I thought something wrong with him but i haven't change anything about him (bortak staff....16 Death 13 Soul Reaping).

So it wasn't only me.

If your MM is using jagged and death nova, usually the problem is that they want to cast death nova nad jagged too much instead of just raising minions. I've never been able to get a hero to run a death nova build rights, they always end up with 4 or 5 minions unless im seriously microing their whole build.

Bluefeather · Feb 29, 2008, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

If your MM is using jagged and death nova, usually the problem is that they want to cast death nova nad jagged too much instead of just raising minions. I've never been able to get a hero to run a death nova build rights, they always end up with 4 or 5 minions unless im seriously microing their whole build.

as i've mentioned, i've been running him and he doesn't go lower than 8 even if he uses Death Nova. (his death nova is not always on minions. there are times he death nova me so there is a big possibility that he also uses death nova on other party members).

but i'm sure that there was a change on him. i hope it is not permament because I love him like that. i'm planning to use him again when i get home tonite on Asura quest (last thing to do on Against the Destroyers).

enter_the_zone · Feb 29, 2008, 06:53 AM // 06:53

I was doing Assault on the Stronghold. Party wiped to bypass the gate. Vekk ran from the rezshrine to the opposite bluff while flagged to just in front of the rez shrine...

GG Anet...again

Thorondor Port · Feb 29, 2008, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Just yesterday my hench fire ele used meteor shower on symbiosis.

DFrost · Feb 29, 2008, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Funny you should mention it, actually just yesterday two of our team's heroes stopped moving in Arachni's Haunt boss chamber and wouldn't move even when flagged.

arcanemacabre · Feb 29, 2008, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFrost

Funny you should mention it, actually just yesterday two of our team's heroes stopped moving in Arachni's Haunt boss chamber and wouldn't move even when flagged.

That has happened to me a few times, and I'm talking months ago, so it's not a recent thing. Something about that boss area in Arachni's, I guess bad pathing or whatever.

I have seen the AI do some dumb things lately. It's not a huge deal, and it's kinda hard to tell if it's any dumber than usual.

Master Knightfall · Feb 29, 2008, 08:16 AM // 08:16

What i don't understand is why the necro class hereos (even 2ndary) don't cast the energy blood ritual spell on the hero MONKS??? I have to manually do this all the time when my monk is out of energy while they will certainly cast it on everybody else but the MONKS! So, please Anet have the necro class cast the blood ritual energy spell on monks as it's a pain to have to do this manually all the time. And STOP the monks from healing the MINIONS all the time. I die cause my AI monk decides healing a minion who has death nova on it is more important than keeping ME alive. lol Hero and Henchie monks shouldn't heal minions AT ALL unless manually told to do so or they have a AOE heal and all of the minions are near them.

I guess this is the only issues I really have with heroes/henchies since I have gotten used to most of their antics and play for them to play like they do. But, it is annoying that the necro classes won't energy renew my monks and monks put minions ahead of me or other heroes/henchies when healing.

Oh an as far as the Death Necro and Death Nova build hero? What I do is turn off Death Nova after the battle and wait till we get in attack range of the next battle then turn it on again. This keeps the hero necro up with you and you can also flag him just a bit out front and turn on death nova and use him and his minions for pulling.

zwei2stein · Feb 29, 2008, 08:30 AM // 08:30

I use heroes go get "free faction" from zaishen sometimes - press enter vs illusionary weaponry team and let heroes afk kill them, come back later press enter again ...

Their builds are constant, so is their equipment.

Some days they anihilate poor mesmers in seconds in all runs: messers run in, eles ghyph sac meteor showes, set up frozen soil and stuff like that, they cast whatever they have avaiable.

However, some days both sides act really dumb: heroes stop casting stuff at random (i have watched them just to stand there watch one iw mesmer heal himself from sliver of health to full with healsig while they had full energy and everything recahrged.) those IW mesmers would run randomly from combat, to do round trip around arena and return to combat, etc. It looks like clash of retard titans.

RedNova88 · Feb 29, 2008, 08:33 AM // 08:33

I've been having some issues with hero AI recently too... And it's not the stuff that's been there since I started like Zhed running into melee range of his target to cast a spell like Searing Flames, keep in mind he's also set to defend and is wielding a staff so it really makes no sense for it to happen.

Anyyyyyway while vanquishing I too have had hero/es run off and get slaughtered because even while flagged they will keep aggro of an enemy even when we're out of their range. A good example of this is when I was vanquishing Jahai Bluffs(I think) and the Dervish boss wiped our party. Immediately after resurrecting, Olias runs right back into the fort while I try to flag him towards me, he ignores the command yet the others move to the flag.

pumpkin pie · Feb 29, 2008, 08:35 AM // 08:35

i want to know what is the red dot with text 5% infront of energy cost in the skill description is for

zwei2stein · Feb 29, 2008, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

i want to know what is the red dot with text 5% infront of energy cost in the skill description is for

It's sacrifice cost.

cthulhu reborn · Feb 29, 2008, 08:51 AM // 08:51

There is definitely something strange with heroes but it's not new. I personally find that Master of Whispers is better as an MM than Olias. It appears that different heroes do have different AI settings. For example, I like to run Livia with a blood build but she refuses to use vampiric gaze if she can help it. She will sit there in mid combat waiting for another skill to recharge with 40+ energy and will not cast the vampiric gaze that is there waiting to be used...
Also when I run Jora with Warrior's Endurance she will rarely use it. All I need her to do is cast it at start of combat but she won't. It seems she doesn't worry about e-management till it's too late.
And then there is the matter of Gwen as a domination interrupter. Let's just say she doesn't do it that well anymore and she used to.
Tahlkora doesn't preprot...all in all you have to watch all your heroes and make them do stuff or they won't.
Personally I wouldn't mind if you could have a sort of trigger setting. Like start of combat will trigger the skill on place 1 for example. That could help a great deal already.

pumpkin pie · Feb 29, 2008, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

It's sacrifice cost.

Thank you much

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn

There is definitely something strange with heroes but it's not new. I personally find that Master of Whispers is better as an MM than Olias. ....

yes i found that to be true as well, Master of Whispers is better using... erm N/D MM build the one with mystic regen, and Olias is better if you make him as a jagged bones MM (minion bombs) and livia... N/Rt healer necro.

Keithark · Feb 29, 2008, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

My heroes always work well, but, then again I know how to build them where they do work well together. Knowing your enemy and the zone is the first line of a victorious session. When people see my heroes in action they are awed and ask me what kinds of builds I use. Of course that is a secret cause if I told one it would be all over the net.

OH elite supreme master of the universe..you are the best hero setter upper in the world and we are all jealous because PvE is so hard and you make it look easy. I wish I could set up heros so that I only have to walk in a zone and mobs run like they do from yours. It would be horrible if your builds got out on the net for your hero's because then everyone might use them and then PvE would be too easy...........wait a minute.....oh it is too easy already I almost forgot. And it is not even that hard if you take hench only and no hero's so guess I dont need an uber build (unless I was baed myself then I might need heros with great setups to make up for it huh?

P.S. Msg me in-game so I can return your arm it must have broke off while you were patting yourself on the back

Ouchie · Feb 29, 2008, 03:27 PM // 15:27

lol last night I was playing with hubby and all of a sudden we finished a fight and Vekk took off we were standing there wondering where he was going - he actually went almost out of range and took on a group alone and died

I have never seen anything like it before. He was set to guard

As for the hero/hench monks not healing we have noticed it for about a week now - off anf on

Oh and heros using a shortbow - man they move in close now much closer than shortbow range

Master Knightfall · Feb 29, 2008, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithark

OH elite supreme master of the universe..you are the best hero setter upper in the world and we are all jealous because PvE is so hard and you make it look easy. I wish I could set up heros so that I only have to walk in a zone and mobs run like they do from yours. It would be horrible if your builds got out on the net for your hero's because then everyone might use them and then PvE would be too easy...........wait a minute.....oh it is too easy already I almost forgot. And it is not even that hard if you take hench only and no hero's so guess I dont need an uber build (unless I was baed myself then I might need heros with great setups to make up for it huh?

P.S. Msg me in-game so I can return your arm it must have broke off while you were patting yourself on the back

ahhh but the difference my fine fellowed stupido is that I only use 3 heroes and rarely use 8 in a group. While you have to use 7 hero/henchies.

Tarkin · Feb 29, 2008, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn

There is definitely something strange with heroes but it's not new. I personally find that Master of Whispers is better as an MM than Olias. It appears that different heroes do have different AI settings. For example, I like to run Livia with a blood build but she refuses to use vampiric gaze if she can help it. She will sit there in mid combat waiting for another skill to recharge with 40+ energy and will not cast the vampiric gaze that is there waiting to be used...
Also when I run Jora with Warrior's Endurance she will rarely use it. All I need her to do is cast it at start of combat but she won't. It seems she doesn't worry about e-management till it's too late.
And then there is the matter of Gwen as a domination interrupter. Let's just say she doesn't do it that well anymore and she used to.
Tahlkora doesn't preprot...all in all you have to watch all your heroes and make them do stuff or they won't.
Personally I wouldn't mind if you could have a sort of trigger setting. Like start of combat will trigger the skill on place 1 for example. That could help a great deal already.

Everytime i set a new build to my heros i open the skill windows and enter the batle one eye in batle other in the how heros use skills, in some cases they use my logic and use skill how i want... in others they use skills better humans, and in other they simple refuse to use skills... my tip, dont use a skill heros never use chance it for a self defese or energy buff...

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoo slaya

When my friends and i recently tried to clear a dungeon we found the heros to be exceedingly incompetent. They have always been pretty dumb, but not this bad. Has there been an AI change recently? I'm talking like monks letting people die while they have 40 energy. I heard someone say that they changed GvG NPCs, can anyone confirm this? link?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva

i noticed this while using sabway with h/h

note:all builds and heros and gear was the same for the runs
one day i do the dragmire dungeon
I massacer everything that comes my way in there
next day same thing
then recently i was doing it with a friend and was watching my heros just run willy nilly and not do anything at all....needless to say we coudlnt be it but it sure was funny watching 3 necs runnin around in a confused panic not knowing what to do.

Tip one... the henchs will follow leader, heros will follow your master... i dont kown what team build you are running guys but... if the human who carry the monks dont stay close the monks dont work well because they are close of your masters and must run away to heal... only one player must carry heros and henchs or them will split...

Tip two... your heros are yours heros, your build... they work welll for you... the other heros are the other heros... in some case they work well in some cases they are a fail...

Tip three... if someone ask for help or are new to the area, yours heros are bad set... few builds work 100% in 100% of areas

Tip four... when i play in "1 tank + nuker mode" just me the nuker carry the heros and henchs tank dont use heros because its hard to tank manage heros...

Keithark · Feb 29, 2008, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

ahhh but the difference my fine fellowed stupido is that I only use 3 heroes and rarely use 8 in a group. While you have to use 7 hero/henchies.

yes i see that in your previous post...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

I have created the ultimate 2 monk 1 MM/SSer necro team. One monk is built around Smite giving up some Divine Favor for the Flame smite of 25pts damage everytime he uses a skill on someone. Both are setup as healing monks because WOH rocks now. They both have mending touch and I only have 1 or 2 points in protection, to me just the mere fact they can remove 2 conditions with this skill more than makes up for the low healing they give. My MM/SSer is a 15 death/13 Curses that brings Spiteful Spirit, Parasite and Barbs from the Curses line and then uses the Bone Minions and 2 Summon Minions skills with Death Nova to create 100pt explosions and disease for 25 seconds and Blood Bond for healing protection and a cheap rez from the monk line in case of emergencies. The other monk is a Monk/Warrior using my blue 15AL 6 tactics shield I made with +30hp and +10 vs slashing and one monk is a Mo/N so he can bring blood ritual I can use to keep the others in energy. I'm just not a big fan of the protection line of healing unless I need protective bond like against "The Drought". Protective just doesn't have the ability to add a lot more hit points to a team mate as fast as the Healing line does, dual WOH is just awesome and I've played in hard mode areas with just my 3 heroes and myself and let them do all the fighting and we still win (and nobody dies) without any or hardly any of my own intervention. Sometimes I will turn the MM/SSer into an Ele instead of a monk and bring Mark of Rodgort so the two monks add to the damage when attacking with their fire weapons of +14pts every second the mob is on fire with their hits. This is when I'm ultra lazy and want them to do everything. Otherwise I just make myself a W/Ele and I bring Mark of Rodgort and I just wand things from the rear with my fire wand.

The other advantage of this is it helps keep from aggroing more mobs that are very near. Though the Necros minions already do a pretty good job of that. lol

-- Both set up as heal monks because everyone knows healing is better than prot right?

-- mend touch is better because you like hero monks running up to mele range to remove bleeding from your warrior?

-- one of the most imba things in the game is soul reaping for e-management and you chose not to use it...very innovative

-- mo/w using 6 atts in tactics for the shield because??? oh I know divine favor makes no difference anyway and your monk surely will not need the energy he would get from caster weapons right?

-- now i see why you dont need the enrergy on that mo/w it is because other monk runs br...lets just hope he uses this when he is in the frontline mend touching your warrior so that he sacs health right in the middle of the mob of bad guys huh?

-- again you point out how prot is terrible...I am sure at least one person somewhere in the world will agree with that

--warriors with wands rule!!!!!!!

I have no problem with you being bad at the game, just don't try to corrupt the rest of the people on here who may not know any better and think the things you say are true....everyone who read the post I quoted from you above are all now dumber for having done so...thanks